Judges? We Don’t Need No Stinking Judges

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In response to my latest column I received an e-mail from Bill Walker, co-founder of the Friends of the Article V Convention. The text of the e-mail was also posted as a comment on the original post.

My point with this post isn’t to burn bridges or start some feud between organizations that have similar goals in mind, namely restricting federal power. But I do think it’s important to understand both what we’re up against and where each organization comes from. So, with that in mind, allow me to expand on a few points by addressing Mr. Walker’s comments.

He writes: “[Joel Poindexter] provides no proof where any judge has ever ruled the states have such authority [to use nullification].”

This assumes that the states need approval from the Feds before they can nullify the Feds, and as the title of this post states, “we don’t need no stinking [judges].” And to that point, let me first suggest that if any judge with any clout ever ruled that a state can nullify an unconstitutional “law,” as determined by that state, we’d likely be in far better shape. Any judge who would side with a state on this issue isn’t likely to acquiesce to federal overreach in the first place, and since judges are appointed to the bench by politicians, we’d have to assume this judge had a similar outlook on federalism.

It’s because judges aren’t overturning unlawful “laws” that nullification is even necessary, so who needs them? That’s sort of the point of nullification; it essentially removes the Feds from the equation, since by the time a state has decided to nullify something, the Feds must have failed somewhere in the process. Whether it’s a legislature with an overly broad interpretation of the commerce clause, an executive who decides to write his own laws or a court without the moral fiber to strike down one of the former, nullification is the answer.

Next, Walker moves into promoting a constitutional convention: “Given an Article V Convention has had [nullification] on its agenda since 1832….”

Ok, stop right there. For those not keeping track at home, 1832 was 180 years ago. I mean at what point should we expect a convention to be held and for an amendment to be ratified? It’s certainly well and good that a provision like this exists; it gives the states another tool against federal bureaucrats and politicians who exceed their so-called limits on power.

My point however, is that nullification has a rich history beginning over two hundred years ago and continuing through today. It has been used to defend free speech; to resist trade wars and ground wars; to prevent kidnapping and slavery; to defend private property; and to protect individuals from Big Brother and the police state. That seems like a pretty good track record, and one I’ll gladly stand with.

And finally, Walker concludes by making my point for me: “Obviously [Poindexter] also chooses to ignore or is not aware of the fact that over 700 applications from 49 states already exist for a convention call. The Constitution mandates a call when 34 states submit 34 applications.”

Again, at which point will even one of those seven hundred applications be considered and curtail the Feds?

Let’s, for the sake of argument, say that a convention was held last night and a new 28th Amendment was adopted at midnight. This hypothetical amendment was passed as written and the process was not co-opted. Note: I can’t stress enough how extremely important these two last points are, or how remote their chances.

What now?

Does anyone really believe that anything will change? Does anyone think for one moment that politicians and bureaucrats who paid no heed to the constitution before will suddenly take notice and get in line?

I don’t think so either.

In fact, this approach seems almost as fruitless as voting bums out. So with that in mind, and in the words of the bandito from Blazing Saddles referenced above: “vamanos!”

About Joel Poindexter

Joel Poindexter is a student working toward a degree in economics. His writing has been published by the Ludwig von Mises Institute, LewRockwell.com and the Tenth Amendment Center. He lives with his wife and daughter near Kansas City. See his blog. Send him mail.

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3 comments
BillWalker
BillWalker

The author fails to acknowledge the obvious. First, that he is discussing nullification OF LAW. Hence the issue is about law. For his information, judges have had the "guts" to nullify laws federally since 1804 and in some states regarding state law before then. As to having "permission" it's called the Constitution. The question the author ignores is whether the Constitution permits what he advocates and it does not. It clearly states in the Constitution that it is supreme law and that all state officials are bound to its terms. It clearly states in the Tenth Amendment that those authorities assigned the states are the states and those assigned the federal government are the federal government. Hence, "nullification" of federal laws is a FEDERAL matter, not state.

 

Besides the author fails to explain or even quote a portion of the Constitution, let alone a judge's ruling (he just says "we don't need stinking judges" presumably because he can't find any other method or means to explain their inconvenience to his "theory") that supports him. If even one judge had ever ruled in his favor he'd be all over it, meaning not even state judges have supported this. Most importantly however to his example of Kentucky is the fact the matter was finally settled in court by judges.

 

Now as to his comment regarding my pointing out nullification was applied for in 1832. First, I pointed that out because many in nullification think it is some new idea and it is not. Second, the fact it was applied for as I have said indicates those supporting it, who originated it, realized and acknowledge it is a state authority which must be granted to be legal and that means getting an amendment.

 

Now as to his assumption a convention is far off and the feds will not do it. The difference between nullification and a convention constitutionally is this: nullification puts those who advocate it against judges, the law, the Constitution and the feds giving them the advantage. A convention does the exact opposite. Unlike nullification that cannot be explained or justified by reference to a constitutional clause, Article V mandates a convention and thus the law, the judges etc. have to view refusal, that is to say, nullification by the feds as a violation of the law which it is.

 

He favors nullification yet says he doesn't think a convention will work. So, in effect, he supports the federal government doing the very thing he himself supports, nullification of provisions of the Constitution. The only difference between him and the "stinking judges" and feds he talks about is not whether the Constitution is nullified but which parts. In reality therefore there is no difference between him and those he criticizes.

 

 

 

jeff2
jeff2

 @BillWalker "The question the author ignores is whether the Constitution permits what he advocates and it does not. It clearly states in the Constitution that it is supreme law and that all state officials are bound to its terms."

 

Actually, the Constitution states that all laws "made in Pursuance" of the Constitution are supreme.   If the Constitution does not authorize the law in question, then, it is not supreme or binding on anyone.   And, yes, the Supreme Court has told us so from time to time.   Federal laws have been held to be Unconstitutional.  Thus, they are NOT supreme and bind nobody. 

 

What the Constitution does NOT say is that a federal law IS Constitutional until the Supreme Court says it is not.  Thus, since you propose that federal laws can only be nullified by the US Supreme Court, show us where it says that in the Constitution.   Is there any provision that says, "All federal laws, whether or not made in pursuance of the Constitution, are the supreme law and binding on all states until the Supreme Court gets around to deciding that the ones made not in pursuance are not binding?"

 

I don't see any provision like that, and my belief is that when a person claims power over others - i.e., "We, the feds, can make all these laws and bind you"  - it seems the burden ought to be on the one claiming such power to prove the source of his power.   It simply is not there.

 

You state further, "It clearly states in the Tenth Amendment that those authorities assigned the states are the states and those assigned the federal government are the federal government. Hence, "nullification" of federal laws is a FEDERAL matter, not state."

 

It does not say that in the 10th Amendment.   The Constitution does not "assign" any authority to the states.   Rather, it takes certain authorities away from the states and gives them to the feds.   The 10th Amendment says, everything that was not taken and given to the feds remains with the states.   That's quite a big difference from the way you described it.

 

Finally, regarding a convention, most definitely, this is a more onerous avenue to seek relief.   If a law is Unconstitutional, is it binding?   Certainly not.   Even fed apologists know that the US Supreme Court has stricken federal laws from time to time, and we know for a fact that Unconstitutional laws are not binding.   If they are not binding, why do we need to form any groups and hope a super majority of states will change the Constitution?   This is bass-ackward.   A convention would be needed to make the bad law Constitutional.  In fact, I don't think nullification is necessary.   When a law is Unconstitutional, it is void.   The US SCt says this.   I believe it.  

jeff2
jeff2

I agree.   To put the issue more squarely to your friend, you could ask, using the Sheriff Mack case which held part of the Brady Law Unconstitutional, "What happens when a state nullifies a federal statute that the feds later come to declare was Unconstitutional to begin with?"  

 

The SCt obviously said the statute is void and not law.   This obviously means the states were not required to comply with it.   Does this not at least implicitly equate to a recognition that nullification is valid - at least when it is done rightly?