Comments on: Help wanted!

By: MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment

MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 19:30:20 +0000

@dmellon We have definitely worked with Tea Party groups on coalition building. It varies state by state depending on how strong the state chapter is.

By: dmellon

dmellon — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 18:58:34 +0000

@MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment I would be interested in reading your book on nullification when it comes out. One of the extra-constitutional actions I have thought about would be state conventions, not constitutional conventions, called by the governors to answer the question does Obamacare violate the tenth amendment. Since this is the process that ratified the constitution why not use it to correct unconstitutional acts by the bodies created by that document? Further it takes the decision out of the hands of the reluctant state legislatures and gives it to the people.

On the help issue. Are you doing anything to solicit the help of the Tea Parties? I am pretty active in the Texas Tea Parties and we have had some considerable success in getting conservative candidates on the November ballot. We are pretty busy now but if Obamacare is still an important issue after the elections and if some of our candidates become state office holders we might be of some help in getting their attention on an effort to nullify it.

By: MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment

MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 17:39:19 +0000

@dmellon Well said. And no, I don’t think the people necessarily need the state legislatures – although since they exist, they serve as a mechanism already in place. But America has a long tradition of extra-constitutional popular action. H. Robert Baker touches on the subject in his fantastic book on Joshua Glover and Wisconsin’s resistance to the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850.I have written a book on nullification that will hopefully be ready to distribute by Sept. that actually builds the case for nullification beginning with the sovereignty of the individual (from a Lockean perspective.)

By: dmellon

dmellon — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 05:15:52 +0000

@MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment A little off the subject but I think everyone should study Madison’s report of 1800. For me it changed the way I look at the relationships between the federal and state governments and we the people. When one reads this report they will realize that the people have highest power in our country. He makes it clear that we the people established the federal government including the Supreme Court when we established the constitution. We created a central government and gave it just enough power to protect our liberty. We gave a Supreme Court the responsibility to ensure the central government abides by the constitution that created it. The constitution is a compact between the people of the various states and not between the legislatures of the states.

He tells us that the Supreme Court is fallible and when it fails to protect us then it is our responsibility to correct the problem if it is serious enough. Unfortunately he doesn’t tell us how to correct the problem.

Using his logic how can we the people correct a mistake by the Supreme Court? The constitutional ways are tenth amendment perhaps, elect better representatives, or amend the constitution. But since we created the constitution we are superior to it and can use unconstitutional means to correct the problem although we cannot change the constitution. And with regard to the tenth amendment, do we the people need the state legislature?

This is the kind of thinking that Madison’s report of 1800 will result for anyone that takes the time to try to understand what he tells us.

By: MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment

MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 02:33:30 +0000

@dmellon I see your point. I agree completely. In fact, your argument is identical to ours. We don’t hold that Jefferson granted some mystical power to the states. We simply site Jefferson frequently because the Kentucky Resolutions of 1798 he drafted (along with Madison’s report of 1800) make the best, most concise constitutional argument for nullification. It is, in fact, based on the Tenth Amendment. Thanks for taking the time to clarify!

By: dmellon

dmellon — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 01:21:30 +0000

@MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment Clarify No. 4. The point is it is the tenth amendment that allows states to declare that the power in question is reserved to the states and therefore null. The states do not have an inherent power to nullify federal law based on some perceived original sovereignty granted by Jefferson who happened to not even have been at the convention drafting the proposed constitution. But the tenth amendment can only effectively be applied to specific cases where there is compelling information supporting the fact that the power in question was never delegated to the federal government.

I would be asking the state legislatures to make the case, based on Supreme Court decided law, that health care is the sole responsibility of the states and was never delegated to the federal government. The states would then declare through law or resolution that Obamacare was null in their states and declare that their citizens and private companies were not subject to any provisions of the law including taxes, mandates, rationing or insurance requirements. This of course would be totally ineffective unless a significant number of states participated.

By: MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment

MikeMaharrey-TenthAmendment — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 20:49:58 +0000

@dmellon Clarify No. 4. You make the case that the health care bill usurps the powers of the states. What are you asking the state legislature to do?

By: dmellon

dmellon — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:24:58 +0000

Here is the help I would offer:
1. Follow the lead of the Tea Party. They decided based on considerable experience that state legislatures were not receptive to new ideas. It is very difficult to get past their staff and actually have a meeting with them and even if you do get to talk to them it is unlikely they will accept any ideas they don’t already agree with. The Tea Party decided they needed to elect TP members to the state legislatures and this was best accomplished during the primaries when voter turnout was light.
2. Focus your attention on a single government law where a strong legal case can be made that the tenth amendment applies. Obamacare is a good choice because health care was one of the original state “police powers” and several, at least five, supreme court opinions say that the state police powers including health care were never delegated to the federal government. What more does one need?
3. Lobby as many state legislatures as possible. There is strength in numbers and since a majority of states challenged the Obamacare mandate it is likely many will support a well thought out strong legal case justifying the application of the tenth amendment.
4. Drop the nonsense about every state having the power to nullify federal laws because Thomas Jefferson said so. It is a loser that will prevent legislators from supporting tenth amendment rights. Stick to cases where there is a strong legal case to be made that a federal government law usurps a power not delegated to it in the constitution.