Those of you who visit this site regularly already know that the health care vote yesterday is far from the end of things – and also know that even when it passes the Senate (which I assume some version will), it’s still not the end of the road for freedom.
The real way to resist DC is not by begging politicians and judges in Washington to allow us to exercise our rights…it’s to exercise our rights whether they want to give us “permission” to or not.
Nullification – state-level resistance to unconstitutional federal laws – is the way forward. It’s peaceful, effective, and has a long history in the American tradition.
Better yet, we expect to see 20-25 states considering legislation to effectively ban national health care in their state in the 2010 legislative session. That same number of states has been able to effectively prevent the Real ID Act of 2005 from being implemented without ever being repealed or challenged in court.
The bottom line? If you want to make real change; if you want to really do something for liberty and for the Constitution…focus on local activism and your state governments.
No more marches on Washington – they don’t work.
True to an extent, which is a big part of the reason the Conservatives set out leaving behind the Republicans a full decade ago, or at the very least stopped voting for their nominees. Im fairly conservative, but no way was I going to vote for a Bush or McCain. Yet, the Presidency only has so much force – they CANNOT pass and a more accurate assesment of disbursement comes from looking at who is leading the House and Senate, not the White House. The Obamabots are making a differentiation when it fits them as their President contends to act out his agenda, and the Bushies did the same when the position was reverse later in his Presidency.
Exactly how and if nullification of a major federal law would work is certainly in question as it has not been attempted in modern times. But, what if 20 or so state legislatures began to hold hearings on nullification, and if those 20 or so Governors flat out say that their state will nullify the Health Care Reform Act as unconstituional – wouldn't that shake Washington to its core? I believe states should nullify all acts, laws, and rules the federal government has issued that are unconstitutional. Yes, federal funds will dry up, but we all suck it up a bit and long-term, we retain our freedom.
Dave – each act of resistance (and that’s what nullification really is) can bring a different response from the feds.
But, there are two very prominent modern examples in practice this very moment – medical marijuana and real id.
You can read a little more about these and other efforts at this link.
I have thought long and hard about nullification for months. The problem is in the money. Take Tennessee for example. The State of Tennessee has about a $30 billion annual budget. Of that, about one third comes from the Federal Government. Most of that goes to medicaid, transportation and education. [Of course the Feds are getting this money from the taxes paid directly by individuals and businesses into the US Treasury.] If Tennessee takes the nullification approach on healthcare, the Feds will cut off billions of dollars in money needed in the State budget. The State Legislature will have no choice but to back down. If an indvidual State cannot stop the money flowing out from individuals and businesses into the US Treasury, then nullification won't work. There are only two possible approaches of which I can think. One would be for a State to somehow stop the deposit of tax wittholdings from flowing into the US Treasury. The other would be for enough States to pass nullification in concert at the same time so as to create a political crisis.
Debra Medina, who is running for Governor of Texas against Rick “Governor Gardasil” Perry and Sen. Kay “Bailout” Hutchison, today petitioned for Perry to convene a special session of the Texas Legislature for the purpose of nullifying the “health care” bill.
http://www.medinafortexas.com/getPost?p=182
Allen – great update, thanks for letting us know! Debra Medina is a fantastic candidate, and a signer of our 10-4 pledge. We have a recent interview of hers that'll be live here on the blog in the next day or so.
Great posts, I have been looking for a comment on individual nullification. I was thinking more in terms of a mass ignore of the mandatory healthcare "law" if it goes that far. Obviously uncharted waters, and the question remains who/how many would have the backbone to test the Feds. If people are willing to stand up to the Feds over the ID or marijuanna issues, I would think they would stand up over the healthcare unconstitutional law. Am I wrong? Look at the anger & size of the crowds, aren't they the "tip of the iceberg"? Many of us took the Oath to "support and defend the constitution, against ALL enemies…"
Not only must we Nullify at the State level, but we must also get Congressmen in at the Federal level who agree with you as I do. Not only, must we stop living in denial about the Bush and Republican Socialism, we must expose the very people behind the corruption in both parties.
To live in denial about this or to refuse to expose it is to "nullify" the efforts of the "10 Amendment Center" and all like-minded groups in all 50 States. Expose this Coup and you will empower the States.
Folks, the US military will not be used to stop you. It will be UN forces you will have to contend with when you seek to Nullify Washington. If you think they will just hand you back the keys when you demand them back, it is not I who is the crazy one.
You are both right and wrong on these issues. Stand your ground at both levels, but do not allow this corruption surrounding Obama and BOTH Parties go without a fight. Otherwise, all is in vain. I challenge you to prove me otherwise, but you must see my proof first: http://www.fracamerica.org
There is a place and time for everything. Demonstrating in Washington has been effective in some cases and is the most direct route (i.e., avoids the bad law in the first place). But when it fails, other action is needed – it might include nullification, civil disobedience, and other peaceful measures.
Due to the design of the RealID law, it could be easily silently nullified by state legislatures. In other words, the law required the states to take action and the states did not take action – in most (all?) cases they did not pass legislation to nullify federal law, they just ignored it. The Health Care bill is a different beast. The law requires direct action from individuals and companies; the states are to some degree a third party to many of the key requirements. Thus, while nullification laws would be welcome, they would have minimal practical effect.
This law will require direct nullification actions from corporations and individuals – what is more commonly referred to as civil disobedience. It is difficult for corporations to disobey because they require licenses from the government and are easily sued by their employees. And most employees faced with conforming plans from their employer at discounted rates vs buying a (more personalized but vastly more expensive) plan on their own will opt for the employer plan, even if that means they buy into the government system. This is a problem because civil disobedience only works when the masses participate.
Thus, I think we are looking for something more than simple disobedience or nullification of this one law. Something that is peaceful but that the tyrants in Washington are unable to ignore. Craig T Nelson suggested not paying income taxes. That still seems a bit extreme, but I think it is in the right direction.
Some great points here – thanks for the perspective. Keep in mind – nullification is NOT simple – it is outright mass civil disobedience with the support of the state apparatus. There were no "requirements" for people who resisted federal marijuana laws here in CA (and now in 13 other states too). People and businesses resisted, and had some backing from the state government – in the face of federal threats, raids, arrests, fines, and more.
But yes, eventually, I do believe there will have to be some kind of way to deal with the IRS issue. Some people recommend what's called a "federal tax escrow account" – where the state holds funds from the IRS and refused to send money to DC for actions that are unconstitutional. I think we're a few steps before that, but it's important to think long term.
I agree with the escrow account – something that I have mentioned to a few people myself. Otherwise the movement will be seen as people just trying to get ahead personally, plus you have the personal conflict with the "pay unto Caesar" issue. I think the escrow account addresses both of those concerns; but as I say, I think there are alternatives prior to going that far.
That is actually what I like about the protests in Washington – it shows a progression of how serious we are. We started with calling last year, small protests early this year, a big protest on 9/12; visiting offices this past week; and now we will be involving state legislatures.
Our effort will succeed because Americans will not live under tyranny. The only question is how far do these protests have to go before the tyrants realize that they can not win. On Saturday, they clearly indicated that they still do not understand.
States do not send the money to the IRS. Indivdiuals and businesses wire money directly from their bank accounts to the US Treasury. This is the #1 leverage of the Federal government.
You republican supporters are the worst! The dems are awful…but they are at least honest about loving socialism! Bush was a freakin’ commie compared to the founders, and so are most of the rest of them in d.c.
How can people be so blind? Bush and the republican crooks grew government faster than clinton! And he nationalizedbplenty – AIG anyone?
So get with it. You people are the biggest prblem in this country because you turn a blind eye to all the criminality in government if it has an R next to it.
So, let me get this straight, frank-o…because you are an imbecile with no concept of what it takes to run a government or a voting machine, you automatically criticize whomever you don't think is taking good care of you. Did I get it just about right? This discussion is really not about Bush or Clinton. Neither of these people is in any official position, nor do they control the size of government through the purse strings. If you read your Constitution, the nation's fiscal budget and expenditures for bailouts, handouts, military and other associated costs come only from the House of Representatives and Congress.
The President only signs or vetos these authorizations. Right now, if we want to get sticky about it, the persons in charge of the country's fiscal budget and bailouts paid to anyone is the Democratically controlled Congress and the post-turtle usurper-elect Barack Hussein Obama. Get it? Are you smart enough to realize that Republicans have not had anything to do with any of the above complaints you raise since 2006 when the Democrat majority took control of Congressional power? Well, it does not seem so. If there is any blindness or myopia towards criminality in our government, I would have to say the joke is on you, sir. So get with it yourself.
mr. Boldin i beg to disagree with you , MR. BUSH would never seizse control of our banking system and GM. or our national health care system, sure MR. BUSH did do some change's to medicare but de did not take it over as a government owned enity, so don't pull the old DEMOCRAT line that this MR, BUSH'S fault this is Democrat made oand owned
Brenda, thanks for the feedback. To clarify – everything that's happening today started in the previous administration.
Government health care had a MASSIVE expansion under Bush, which laid the groundwork for Obama.
Bailouts started a long time ago, but big bank bailouts started under Bush, and were simply expanded by Obama.
The bottom line is pretty simple – each administration uses what the previous one did as a floor, not a ceiling for what kind of power their going to use. It doesn't matter what side is in charge. My point here – even if there's a Republican group in power in a few years, they'll continue to expand government like every administration does.
I never thought I'd even think it, but the Clinton years looked like small government compared to the Bush years, which looked like small government compared to Obama. But they all completely disregarded the constitution.
Oh, and don’t forget – George Bush and his gang nationalized Freddie and Fannie – two giants of the banking industry. That also laid the groundwork for further nationalization under Obama.
With all due respect, if you think the problems we face today started in Jan, 2009, you haven’t been paying attention.
The event was strenuous labor on the able-bodied- so I feel for the old and infirm- it must have been a Herculean effort.
Truth is- THEY GOT the message.
They heard us and they ignored us. The Blue Dogs and the RINO's were hiding under their desks, were "in a meeting" or otherwise unavailable.
Just like when they take their phones and faxes off the hook, let their e-mail and voice mail get full and refuse to speak to anyone who does not live in their districts.
These people just tried to vote away our Liberty.
They WILL be out of office in 2010 and 2012.
We must all keep up our energies and resolves.
This vote in the House has only managed to anger far many more people than they can imagine.
The Sleeping Giant has been awakened?
YOU BETCHA!
[youtube NKwoElGt6VU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwoElGt6VU&fe... youtube]
From your own comment – thousands marched. The politicians “got the message” and it didn’t make a difference. The bill passed.
And regarding the next elections, it’s as if you didn’t notice that all the groundwork for the current national health care plan was laid by Bush and the Republicans…..in 2003, those big-government criminals gave this country the biggest expansion of government control over health care since medicare. And Obama and the democrats are simply taking that ball and running with it even further.
I understand that people truly believe that one political party of the other will make a difference. I do still encourage you to do what you believe is best – but am simply offering a different strategy than what I see as a failed one. If after a few more years of government growth you recognize that as a failed strategy, come on back!
Irespectfully disagree about not marching on Washington- but agree wholeheartedly about fighting at the local-state levels.
I was at the House Call on the Congress last Thursday- along with about 40,000 other like-minded patriots.
This 40,000 number comes from the head of the Capitol Police- even though the media downplayed it.
Additionally- the horrendous Ft. Hood massacre took our efforts off the front pages and the television.
But as I said, I was there- and met many Congress members- including Tom Price, Phil Gingrey and Michele Bachmann. I was also lucky enough to meet Mark Levin and Jon Voight- such great patriot/activists.
But the point remains the same – what does that do to stop socialism? If the marches and calls to DC continue, and we still get national health care – what will be the next "solution" – to "vote the bums out in 2010?
People have been voting the bums out for 100 years in this country. The result? There's been an almost constant march – a consistent, never-ending expansion of the size of the federal government…no matter who is in power.
You say: "No more marches on Washington – they don’t work."
Thanks a lot for being supportive of all angles of this movement. You can think it, but kindly keep your thoughts to yourself.
Show me a march on DC that's reduced the size of government – or better yet, explain why we shouldn't promote what people like Jefferson and Madison recommended in situations like we face today??
If this is signed into law (and I am sure it will) and Kentucky won't nullify, I have no choice but to move to a more intelligent state that will nullify where we will be able to hold some freedoms.
Maybe all hope is not lost yet.
Nullification sounds like the way to go.
I wouldn't say the marches on Washington have been ineffective; we have been ineffective in getting the word out during and after. Conservative patriots only have limited experience at this; it will come. The future is activism. Even the alphabet networks will start covering the conservative movement as their infatuation with BHO wears thinner, and as their ratings continue to plummet.
Very important that we ready the ground for a full-on assault in the 2010 mid-terms and hold the Repubs to a conservative message. Small government conservatism will win in 2010. A 3rd party would be ineffective and will only prolong the agony. If we get the Repubs back in leadership, and then hold their feet to the fire, we can accomplish more, sooner.
The point is – that activism and energy is best spent somewhere other than in DC. 20-25 states have been able to effectively nullify a federal law without a court challenge or the law being repealed – Real ID. 14 states have passed laws in direct contravention to federal laws on marijuana – and the feds don't have the manpower to deal with them. Health care is the same….
If you really care about your freedom – the path to it is not in Washington D.C. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and other prominent founders advised us on what to do when 2 or more branches of the federal government were conspiring against your liberty and the constitution – and it wasn't "march on Washington!" It was – go to your state capitols and demand that your elected reps in your states – and your governors too – do their DUTY! They need to stand up for your liberty and refuse to cooperate with DC….that's nullification, and if you go to the links in the post above, you'll be able to read a little further on the subject.
Agreed; but, hey, I live in Texas and I think we are uniquely positioned to push back at the state level, but we just finished our legislative session, and won't have another until 2011. Can't wait that long…. We are fortunate to have a pretty great Congressional delegation in DC and will need to prod them to do more. By the way, we were there on 9/12 in DC and it was f***in awesome! Cheers; keep up the good work
Yes, states like Texas and Nevada are certainly more unique. Everywhere, obviously, it still is important to do something on a federal level – more for the principle than anything. But those who've put all their eggs in the Washington basket – I believe – are going to be seriously disappointed. Even in places like TX, it's essential to push on state reps to take action, speak out, and in 2011, to pass some binding legislation to resist the feds.